Andy Stanley makes many statements in this interview that cause me concern. The greatest concern however is when he says he doesn't believe the account of Adam and Eve because the Bible says so, but because Jesus said so. The obvious error is to pit the Bible vs the words of Jesus. We know that Jesus had a very high view of scripture saying they could "Not be broken" (John 10:35).
We are told in 2 Timothy 3:16 that ALL scripture is inspired by God and in 2 Peter 1:21 that scripture did not come from the will of man but of God.
Andy Stanley, whether he is aware of it or not is attacking the authority of the Bible and is actually undermining the authority of God's word. It is not just the "red letters" that are inspired by God, but every word.
To his point that the Bible is not our foundation but Jesus, it is a SERIOUS error to try and separate "special revelation" which informs us of whom Jesus is and what He has done from who Jesus is. The two while not identical can not be,separated in mans salvation because one must have special revelation in order to know what we must believe. Unless God tells us via special revelation (His word) we know nothing of the redemptive work of Christ and what one must believe in order to be saved. Andy's statements are wreck-less and dangerous in this interview. Not trying to be offensive but we must defend truth even if our favorite teacher Crosses the line into dangerous boundaries.
This is a link to this excellent show done on White Horse Inn!
"The worship wars are over, and most Protestant churches now feature a praise band or worship team. In the quest for relevance, today’s churches offer worship experiences that are in tune with the expectations that parishioners receive from contemporary pop culture. However, some are beginning to recognize that this pop-music worship style lacks a certain transcendence, and in their quest to find a sense of the sacred, many are abandoning evangelicalism and are becoming Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. So is this new appreciation for Gregorian chants and swinging incense a healthy reaction? What is worship anyway? That’s what’s on tap on this edition of White Horse Inn."
CLICK HERE
http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/05/20/whi-1102-the-worship-experience/
This is an incredible two hour documentary on why the "seeker-driven" models that dominate so many of the churches today is based on a foundation that is polar opposite to that of sacred scripture. We are told in numerous places to fear the Lord and depart evil. It is true when we come to Christ we have purpose and meaning but the reason one needs Christ desperately is to escape the wrath and judgement of God for their sin.
This video documents the dangerous teachings from men like Steven Furtick, Perry Noble, Rick Warren and others and explains why these churches should be avoided at all cost.
No Co Ever: Episode 1 from No Compromise Radio on Vimeo. Excellent video with some very respected leaders looking at the numerous problems with the "Elephant Room" and some of the guests as well as the questions that were asked to certain guests.
These have been selling like Hot cakes in American Evangelicalism! Many Christians in American evangelicalism are either caught up in the "prosperity gospel" or the latest craze of the "seeker sensitive" movement and are not being taught the full council of God's word.
Watch this video of these people who hear the gospel for the first time and go ecstatic to find out that Jesus Christ died on the cross and His blood will save His elect from their sins
No cool band with "skinny jeans". No strobe lights and electric guitars. Just the gospel of Jesus Christ! They celebrated for over two hours straight!!! Oh that we would fall in love with the gospel and that we would see that it is more than enough.
Have you ever heard the phrase "God has a wonderful plan for your life"? Do you think it's biblical? Before you answer, consider this -- What would you say if you were able to preach to 1,000 people in Tower One of the World Trade Center, the day before it collapsed and killed them? Would you say that God had a "wonderful plan" for their lives? How could you say that when their lives are going to end the next day in the most horrible of ways? This episode not only exposes this popular yet unbiblical presentation, it shows how it actually limits the Gospel to a certain segment of the world, and how it has the potential to fill the Church with false converts.
Excellent video showing the problems with the "seeker sensitive" movement. Sadly this has taken over evangelicalism in America. The result is that the church is filled with false converts and Christians who have such a week shallow view of the Gospel they are on life support.
Friends when giving the gospel to our friends we can not leave out sin, the cross, repentance and the Lordship of Jesus Christ over all things. It is the preaching of the cross that shows men the need for repentance. To tell people that coming to Jesus will make them happy or bring them money is to pervert the Gospel of our Lord. Coming to Christ requires a cost: Matthew 10:39 "Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."
"The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.'
Mathew 16:25
"For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."
This of course is not a popular message. Imagine going to a service and hearing the pastor say that if you want to follow Christ you have to deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow him daily (Luke 9:23) and that if you want to be a Christian you better be ready to hate your father, mother, brother and even your own life if need be (Luke 14:26).
Paul Washer hits it on the head! This is the beauty of believing in the sovereignty of God is you do not have to worry about trying to attract people by carnal, unbiblical and unGodly means but rather give them the truth of scripture as God has ordained the Holy Scriptures as the instrument to which draws people and they are saved. If America ever comes under any type of persecution you will see this 80% of America which claim to be Christian shoot down to about 15%.
We need to pray God continues to raise up Godly men who will stand up and fight relentlessly to proclaim his word and not flinch! To stand up for truth, to defend truth, and to love truth!. Let us not fall into the trap of trying to talk people into believing the gospel by misrepresenting what the gospel is and trying to attract people by un-Godly means.
With so much emphasis these days on "evangelism" (which usually means a method that was adopted less than 200 years ago), it's amazing and freeing for many when they first hear the history of a method that we know today called "decisional regeneration" and it's founding father, Charles Grandison Finney. Maybe even more noteworthy is the fact that Finney, just before he died, renounced the very methods that he once founded and used and which many use today to gather unbelievers together in groups. If this video doesn't convince you of the dangers of decisional regeneration, I'm not sure if you truly do have a heart for the lost (as many of the proponents of this type of "evangelism" often self proclaim).
Here it is, folks. If you're looking for a good, concise way to present what is wrong with the modern approach to evangelism, look no further. With the gracious permission of Mark Kielar who's allowed me to use the videos in any way that will further the Kingdom, I've taken two of the previous clips that I've posted and added more to them from the original episode to give it context.
This is taken from the "How God Converts the Human Soul" series from CrossTV. You can get this series at http://www.crosstv.com or by calling 1-877-CROSSTV.
In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!” And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke. And I said: “Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!”
Have you ever been in a Bible "study", and it became more of a pooling of "Well, this verse means to me... so forth and so forth..." This video by CrossTV shows the importance of keeping the Bible in context.
(Fact: The orginal documents were not numbered and chaptered. They were and have always been meant to be read in full context. The numbers and chapters came later.)
Dr. Macarthur makes a great point. I have been in NUMEROUS churches that do this. The Pastor will dim the lights, play some emotional song and sometimes they will plant people in the audience to come up to the altar to get things moving.
The funny thing is so many of the people that do this are the same ones that kick and scream against apologetics and accuse those who use it as not trusting in the Holy Spirit yet they resort to manipulation and emotional appeals to try and "talk" them into becoming a Christian.
I was recently sent an article by a friend who wanted me to read this article by Dustin Christensen on whether or not Christianity needs a better story. Here is the article and below is my response.
The author does not understand man's nature according to scripture.
He says " There’s no connection. No connection between speaker and audience, between audience and message. There are no emotional bonds being formed and it comes down to this: the man’s not telling a story. He’s lecturing. He’s moralizing and reprimanding. His sermon is devoid of any narrative or storytelling qualities. His words are brash, one-dimensional and inflexible, with no room for interaction or interpretation. "
He makes it sound as though men are earnestly searching for God and if we change our method and not be so dogmatic (Many times those saying this mean do not take a hard stance on the essentials of the faith and allow people to have their own views on the Trinity,deity of Christ, existence of Hell, etc) then people will run to the Cross. However scripture says
(Romans 3:10-18 ESV) as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
It is the dogmatism that he does not like but scripture is dogmatic on the essentials. If one does not see their need to repent, they will go to Hell and be separated from God's goodness for eternity
He goes on to say"Without storytelling, there’s no way for him to meaningfully connect to the passersby, and there’s no way for them to truly internalize his words. There’s a one-way line of communication that falls flat before it can reach even the few receptive listeners making their way past. And at some time, somewhere, we’ve all seen this street corner."
These kind of statements demonstrate he does not understand what the Bible says about the nature of man. You can be as relevant as you want and do all the gimmicks you want but if you are preaching the true message of the cross then the unregenerate will find it foolishness.
What he is seeing is people preaching the true Gospel and nobody listening and thinking the guy preaching the true message is foolish. This is what the word of God says the natural man's response is going to be. The author of this article is saying that they are not responding to scripture so we need to tell stories instead. You can do that but if your goal is to see people saved then abandoning scriptures for stories is like cutting off your nose before you smell the rose.
(1 Corinthians 1:18 ESV) For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Does not matter how you dress it up, if you are being faithful to the gospel then the unregenerate will think it is nonsense. It must be a supernatural act of God to open the eyes of the blind.
(1 Corinthians 2:14-15 ESV) The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
The idea that if we are just more"relevant" then people will flock to the Gospel is just non-sense. They can't because they are unable to because they are spiritually dead.
(Ephesians 2:1-3 ESV) And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
By nature man is a child of wrath and as Romans 6 says man is a slave to sin and hostile towards God.
We also read that man does not come to God because he is "talked" into it but rather a supernatural act of God has opened the blind eyes.
John 6:44 says "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him."
(John 1:12-13 ESV) "But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Salvation is based on God's choice not man manipulating people through psychological means to make them feel good.
It is very clear that this guy thinks those who take a hard stand on the authority of scripture are arrogant, pompous, un-loving etc. This is non-sense friends. We are to stand upon the scriptures and not change the message like a chameleon to suit the culture.
The Gospel is confronting man with their sin and the law of God (10 commandments) is like a mirror that reflects mans sin so they see the need to repent. If the Gospel being preached does not confront man with sin and warn them that God's wrath abides on them then they are not preaching any gospel at all.
I could go on but I will leave it there.
Secondly I want to address his view that if the way one preaches the Gospel does not produce numbers then it is wrong, is based on pragmatism meaning if it works then it must be the right method.
Joel Osteen has one of the largest church's in America and yet he does not consider Mormonism to be a false belief system. They do not do any type of Biblical teaching and they employ heretical "prosperity" teachings. The fact he has a huge church and a big following does not mean he is preaching the truth. Numbers do not determine truth.
We as slaves of Jesus Christ are told we are to preach the word
(2 Timothy 4:1-5 ESV) I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
We are not told to tell stories but to preach the word of God (As the scripture above says) which is what God uses to draw His elect to Him
I have no problems using analogies but we can not replace the Scriptures with stories so we don't run people off. Let give an example of a "story" I use often with non-believers.
Imagine you are in a court of law and have been found guilty of a serious crime and it is either 50,000 or 20 years in prison. You do not have the money and as they take you off to jail someone stands up and pays your fine. You are now free because the debt has been payed.
It is analogous to the gospel because man has sinned against God (Romans 3:23)and are by nature a child of wrath (Ephesians 2) and God's wrath abides on you (John 3:18). And so unless someone steps in you will be sentenced for your crimes against God. However Jesus steps in and His sacrifice on the Cross has payed your fine! Thus you are set free from sin (Ephesians 2:8, Romans 5:1) and now can spend eternity worshiping the Master.
If this is the kind of stories he is talking about then I would not have a problem because you are NOT replacing the scriptures but rather explaining them and telling them where the Bible teaches these things. The attitude I get from this is article is that we should not be dogmatic.
Sadly he does not differentiate between essentials and non-essentials
1-Essentials are those that MUST be believed such as the Trinity, Jesus is God, physical Resurrection, virgin birth, justification by faith alone, etc.
These are issues that are not negotiable. If one denies these then they are not a Christian
2-Non-essentials are things like, Are tongues for today?, mode of baptism, etc.
The context he is talking about with street preachers is dealing with essentials and they are dogmatic and not open for debate. These are truths that divide the kingdom of Christ from the kingdom of the cults.
We always need to go to scripture, preach scripture and stand on the essentials. We are told that it is scripture which is the instrument God uses to save man.
(Romans 10:14-17 ESV) How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."
I have no problem with being relevant to the culture but not at the expense when we trade in our Bibles to learn stories instead of preaching the Word of God.
Let me also point out that when we have a proper view of soteriology we see that man does not need to come up with gimmicks to try and get people to come to Christ. We are to evangelize and preach the word and God will take care of the rest
(John 6:37-40 ESV) All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
God from the beginning has elected a people for Himself and His purposes can not be thwarted and thus we just need to be faithful to evangelism and faithful to the word of God.
(Ephesians 1:3-5 ESV) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will"
I would argue that this author does not have the Biblical view of man's nature and is operating under pragmatism (What he thinks works gets results) instead of the Biblical charge to preach the Gospel which is first and foremost repentance of sin and submission to our Lord and Master.
I am sure the author has good intentions and I am in no way trying to attack him personally but I think this method is dangerous, un-biblical and based on pragmatism. Please watch the videos below to get a in-depth teaching as to why we MUST NOT abandon the scriptures for stories.
This is an issue that is close to my heart and I have a passion to defend truth and Holy Scripture.
Here is a great series John Macarthur did on this very topic and why we must not be
This is soooo good! There is a trend in many church's to cater the service around the non believers that may wander in to the service. The purpose of church is to equip and edify the believers, NOT non believers. That being said I would not advocate not allowing non believers to come if they are truly seeking however we should never cater our service and preaching to the non-believer. John Macarthur does a great job in explaining this
This is rather amazing and I absolutely could not believe it until I checked it out.
These are some of the more troubling aspects I read:
"15 people from Elevation church staff placed in the audience:
15 people will sit in the worship experience and be the first ones to move when Pastor gives the call.
1. Sit in the auditorium and begin moving forward when Pastor Steven says go.
2. Move intentionally through the highest visibility areas and the longest walk.
Hallway Staff at Elevation church: 1. Create an atmosphere of Celebration for those being baptized as they walk toward the changing rooms…this needs to be HUGE and over the top celebration!"
The church should be "planting" people in the audience to "prime the pump"?
Wonder why we get so many "false converts"? Maybe because they were never saved to begin with and church's manipulate their emotions by "planting" people in the crowd and then strategically have them walk in the most crowded high visible areas why everyone cheers them on and they are driven by emotions.
This is wrong folks. We should not be deceiving people at the church for the first time into thinking there is a bunch of people going up when they have been "planted" there all along. That is deceitful!
Where is the trust in the power of God's Holy Spirit to convict the sinner's heart? Do we need to plant people in the audience and put them in the highest visible areas to cheer for them as they walk the isle as an incentive to "make a decision"?
I am not trying to be offensive friends as I know that Elevation is a big church and no doubt does a lot of good for the community but this is dead wrong.
To be clear, I do not think the motives of Steven Furtick or Elevation church are bad. No doubt they truly want to see people come to know the truth. My issue is with this methodology that I find to be VERY disturbing
For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
