Mormon vs Christian Debate!

Join Devin and Melissa Pellew each week at they discuss topics related to biblical theology, Christian apologetics and worldview issues. This week, we had a very interesting dialogue between an Evangelical Christian and a Mormon on the topic of "Who is God?" and other key doctrinal differences between the two belief systems. Representing The Church of Latter Day Saints will be Rashago Kemp of Springville, Utah. Rashago grew up the son of the pastor of a non-denomination church and was a youth leader before converting to the Church of Latter Day Saints five years ago. Representing Evangelical Christianity will be Michael Willenborg, graduate of Southern Evangelical Seminary with a Master's in Apologetics. We will also take your calls at the end of the show with questions directed at Rashago and Michael. You do not want to miss this interesting croosfire dialogue as we closely examine the teachings of Mormonism and orthodox Christianity and how they differ.

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Matt Slick Interviews Mormons, Manti, 2012

Matt from carm.org does a FANTASTIC job while interviewing these Mormons.  This interview should show the need for memorizing scripture and studying to show ourselves approved!

Joel Osteen on Mormonism

Joel Osteen, who has one of the largest congregations in America, has said in this recent interview that he believes Mormons are Christians because they believe in Jesus.  Is this true? Are Mormons Christian?

Brigham Young himself issued a challenge

"Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints with it and see if it will stand the test," (Brigham Young, May 18, 1873, Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 46.)

So we need to do that! What Beck, said we would normally hear in our churches every Sunday. The question is whether the Mormon Jesus, is the same as the Jesus of the bible. Here we will see it is a entirely different Jesus.

The Jesus, of Mormonism is a created being and the spirit brother of Lucifer (Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

This could not be further from the truth when we look at sacred scripture where we see Jesus is eternal, immutable and the creator of the universe:

1-(Colossians 1:15-17)

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together."


2- (John 1:1-3 ESV)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made."

3- (Hebrews 1:1-2 ESV)

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world."

The bible is clear that Jesus is not some created, dependent being, but rather the eternal creator and sustainer of the universe. While Mormonism teaches Lucifer, and Jesus, are brothers, the bible says Jesus, is the CREATOR of Lucifer and Lucifer's very existence depends on the eternal, unchanging Son of God

Mormons says that God sent his son, but who is the Father in Mormonism?

1-"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).
2-"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's," (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10)."

3- "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

Does Holy Scripture teach that? I would say absolutley not!

1- 1- John 4:24 "God is Spirit"

2- Luke 24:39 "A Spirit does not have flesh and bone"

If a spirit does not have flesh and bone and God is a spirit then God does Not have flesh and bone!

3- 1 Timothy 6:15-16

"He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16-who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen."

According to this verse no one ever has. Or can see God the Father.

4- Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

5-John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known"

6-1 John 4:1  "No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us."

These verses contradict what Mormon theology teaches about the Father.

Lastly, Mormonism teaches that there are more than one God:

1- The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35)

2-"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345)

3 -Bruce McConkie states that God became a God by being saved by obedience to laws.
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same," (Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1985, p. 64).

If this is true then the Father was once like we are now and himself would have needed a creator to bring him into existence. However Holy Scripture is clear that there is only one God in existence:

1-Isaiah 43:10 "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." 

2-Isaiah 44:6 "I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

3- (Isaiah 44:8 ESV)

"Fear not, nor be afraid;
have I not told you from of old and declared it?
And you are my witnesses!
Is there a God besides me?
There is no Rock; I know not any.”

4- (Isaiah 45:5 ESV)

"I am the LORD, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me"

5- (Deuteronomy 6:4 ESV)

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one."

In conclusion it is clear that Mormonism and Christianity are NOT the same and the Mormon doctrine of God is COMPLETELY different from the historic Christian faith.

I did not write this to bash Mormons because I love them and have family (Who are probably reading this) who are Mormons yet I love them dearly.

However I do not love Mormon theology because it's teachings on the doctrine of who God is are opposed to and an enemy of Holy Scripture.


Pray that God would let you encounter Mormons so we can share the gospel of grace with them. Warn your Christian friends so they are not deceived or confused by the similar language Mormons use but import different meanings into the words.

I Love Mormons, I am not anti-Mormon, but I do believe we need to speak out and let people know it is a different gospel.

2 Corinthians 10:5

"We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."

Are Mormons Christian?

 Dr. Geisler does a great job in explaining why Mormonism is NOT Christian. It can be very confusing because Mormons will often times use the same terminology and language that Christians use but they are importing different meanings into the words.

Mormons believe Jesus Christ is a created being and the spirit brother of Lucifer (Satan) and not the eternal Son of God  as orthodox Christianity teaches. http://en.fairmormon.org/Jesus_Christ/Brother_of_Satan

They fully reject the doctrine of the Trinity which says there is only one God who exists and it is the Triune God of the bible who is one in essence and three in person. Mormons believe that there are many gods and that one day we can become gods through obedience to the scriptures and good works.  This of course is polar opposite to what scripture teaches that there is only one God in existence:



1-Isaiah 43:10 "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. 

2-Isaiah 44:6 "I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

3- (Isaiah 44:8 ESV)

"Fear not, nor be afraid;
have I not told you from of old and declared it?
And you are my witnesses!
Is there a God besides me?
There is no Rock; I know not any.”

4- (Isaiah 45:5 ESV)

"I am the LORD, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me"

5- (Deuteronomy 6:4 ESV)

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one."

I am not "Anti-Mormon" but I am "Anti-Mormon" theology because it contradicts and confuses biblical theology and the person of Jesus Christ and who God is.

Is Mormonism Christian?

I just read this fb post by Glenn Beck

"Many of us grew up celebrating Easter as the holiday where a cute bunny rabbit brought chocolate and treats for everyone to eat. Now don’t get me wrong, I’d be lying if I told you there was no candy involved in my Easter weekend, but that’s not what it’s all about. Easter is actually the greatest love story ever told. Mankind was lost – headed for destruction, but because God so loved the world, He gave His one and only Son, so that whoever believes in Him will never die & have eternal life. And like the good Shepherd, Jesus laid down His life for the flock. He didn’t have to – but He did. That is why we celebrate - Happy Easter."

I like Beck and have a few of his books on political issues. Beck, is a Mormon and does not hide it. Why I like him as a person we need to examine Mormon beliefs in light of scripture. In fact Brigham Young himself issued a challenge

"Take up the Bible, compare the religion of the Latter-day Saints with it and see if it will stand the test," (Brigham Young, May 18, 1873, Journal of Discourses, vol. 16, p. 46.)

So we need to do that! What Beck, said we would normally hear in our churches every Sunday. The question is whether the Mormon Jesus, is the same as the Jesus of the bible. Here we will see it is a entirely different Jesus.

The Jesus, of Mormonism is a created being and the spirit brother of Lucifer (Jesus is the literal spirit-brother of Lucifer, a creation (Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

This could not be further from the truth when we look at sacred scripture where we see Jesus is eternal, immutable and the creator of the universe:

1- (Colossians 1:15-17 ESV)

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.


2- (John 1:1-3 ESV)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

3- (Hebrews 1:1-2 ESV)

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

The bible is clear that Jesus is not some created, dependent being, but rather the eternal creator and sustainer of the universe. While Mormonism teaches Lucifer, and Jesus, are brothers, the bible says Jesus, is the CREATOR of Lucifer and Lucifer's very existence depends on the eternal, unchanging Son of God

Beck says that God sent his son, but who is the Father in Mormonism?

1-"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).

2-"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's," (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; Compare with Alma 18:26-27; 22:9-10)."

3- "Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).

Does Holy Scripture teach that? I would say absolutley not!

1- 1- John 4:24 "God is Spirit

2- Luke 24:39 "A Spirit does not have flesh and bone"

If a spirit does not have flesh and bone and God is a spirit then God does Not have flesh and bone!

3- 1 Timothy 6:15-16

"He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16-who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen."

According to this verse no one ever has. Or can see God the Father.

4- Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

5-John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known"

6-1 John 4:12 "No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us."

These verses contradict what Mormon theology teaches about the Father.

Lastly, Mormonism teaches that there are more than one God:

1- The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35)

2-"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345)

3 -Bruce McConkie states that God became a God by being saved by obedience to laws.
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same," (Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, 1985, p. 64).

If this is true then the Father was once like we are now and himself would have needed a creator to bring him into existence. However Holy Scripture is clear that there is only one God in existence:

1-Isaiah 43:10 "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.

2-Isaiah 44:6 "I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

3- (Isaiah 44:8 ESV)

"Fear not, nor be afraid;
have I not told you from of old and declared it?
And you are my witnesses!
Is there a God besides me?
There is no Rock; I know not any.”

4- (Isaiah 45:5 ESV)

"I am the LORD, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me"

5- (Deuteronomy 6:4 ESV)

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one."

In conclusion it is clear that Mormonism and Christianity are NOT the same and the Mormon doctrine of God is COMPLETELY different from the historic Christian faith.

I did not write this to bash Mormons because I love them and have family (Who are probably reading this) who are Mormons yet I love them dearly.

However I do not love Mormon theology because it's teachings on the doctrine of who God is are opposed to and an enemy of Holy Scripture.

As you see from the post from Beck, that even though it sounds Christian, once you dig into the meanings of the words it is polar opposite from Christianity.

Pray that God would let you encounter Mormons so we can share the gospel of grace with them. Warn your Christian friends so they are not deceived or confused by the similar language Mormons use but import different meanings into the words.

I Love Mormons, I am not anti-Mormon, but I do believe we need to speak out and let people know it is a different gospel.

2 Corinthians 10:5

"We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."

A discussion on Calvinism vs Arminianism

Myself and my dear brother Mathew Graham who is an elder in my church and someone I greatly love and respect are going to do a written debate on the Doctrines of Grace!

He will make an opening statement on Total Depravity and I will respond and we will go down the five points. Here is a link to his blog so you can follow the debate!

CLICK HERE http://www.procreo.blogspot.com/

Why George Bryson Won't Debate Anymore

James White does an excellent job debating George Bryson on their debate on Calvinism. John 6:44 is a knock out punch for Calvinism and you see George Bryson tripping all over himself trying to explain the text away

Hidden truths behind the Church of the Latter Day Saints (Mormonism) LDS

What is mormonism? Who is Joseph Smith? Are Mormons Christians?
Dr James White shares his take on this episode of Renewed Mind.
Renewed Mins is a TV program produced and owned by CMP (Christian Media Productions) www.facebook/christianmediaproductions
Dr James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona.

Chuck Smith, Calvary Chapel, and their Ignorance Fest on Calvinism

Dr. James White addresses comments of Chuck Smith and his co-hosts on the "Pastor's Perspective" radio program, as found here. This just under five minute clip is a study in shallow eisegesis. It is incredible that these men who are leaders of such a large movement could be so simplistic in their traditionalism. Simply shocking. ...

McCalip vs Wessels Debate on Calvinism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTZPjxx6PzU&feature=BFa&list=PL69076F1853B138DE&lf=plpp_video&fb_source=message
CLICK HERE


This debate with Larry Wessels of Christian Answers Ministries out of Austin Texas done the weekend of July 11, 2009 in Austin. It is a 4 hour debate with each side giving 5 minute proofs of his position, Mcalip being that Jesus died and shed his blood for every man and Larry believing that Jesus died only for a select few individuals handpicked from eternity.

Does Calvinism Make God a Moral Monster? Dr. Michael Horton Replies

http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2011/11/16/does-calvinism-make-god-a-moral-monster/

CLICK HERE TO READ

If Calvinism is True, Why Evangelize

"God has called me to preach His word and if I knew that all the elect had a yellow stripe painted down their backs, then I would give up preaching the Gospel and go and lift up shirt tails!"

- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Introduction to Calvinism

John Piper teaches on the doctrines of grace. I have come to love and embrace these precious doctrines and hope you come to love them and embrace them as well!

I will be posting two videos a week until the seminar is done and if you watch and take notes then you will have a well rounded education in Reformed theology!

Dr. James White Review Roger Olsons Book "Against Calvinism"

"Roger Olson doesn't like to debate, and he doesn't like to defend his assertions, either, but that won't stop us from reviewing his book! A very troubling aspect of Olson's book: he admits that even if God revealed that He does exist, and act, as Calvinists say He does, *Olson would refuse to worship Him.* That's an amazing thing for a professed Christian to say. Here is our review."

This is an excerpt from monergism.com

Greg Koukl - Calvinism and Choice

Taken from our blog, Greg Koukl of Stand to Reason answers the question "As a Calvinist, how do you personally deal with God's free choice of choosing some for salvation and not others?" For more information, visit http://www.str.org.

Bad Arguments Against Calvinism

http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5130

CLICK HERE

Greg Koukl from Stand to Reason answers bad arguments that are often used against Calvinism!

Amazing Grace - The History & Theology of Calvinism

To order, please visit: http://www.nicenecouncil.com

Just what is "Calvinism?" Does this teaching make man a deterministic robot and God the author of sin? What about free will? If the church accepts Calvinism, won't evangelism be stifled, perhaps even extinguished? How can we balance God's sovereignty and man's responsibility? What are the differences between historic Calvinism and hyper-Calvinism? Why did men like Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Spurgeon, Whitefield, Edwards and a host of renowned Protestant evangelists deny the Arminian definition of free will and label it heresy? Why did the Roman Catholic Church condemn the Reformed teaching of predestination and election and embrace free will theology? And why do so many Protestants, perhaps unwittingly, agree with Rome on this issue?

Amazing Grace:The History and Theology of Calvinism is the first video documentary that answers these and other related questions. This fascinating three-part, four-hour presentation is detailed enough so as to not gloss over the controversy. At the same time, it is broken up into ten "Sunday-school-sized" sections to make the rich content manageable and accessible for the average viewer.

Why Do We Need Apologetics?

Prominent Speakers explain, Why Today We Need Apologetics.

Mormonism vs Christianity

http://www.bringyou.to/WalterMartinVanHaleDebate.mp3

CLICK HERE

Van Hale vs Walter Martin

Classic debate between outspoken Mormon apologist and one of the greatest defenders of the orthodox Christian faith of our time come together for a face to face dialog in this classic debate!

Mormonism and Polygamy

Very good video talking about Mormonism and some of their beliefs dealing with their prophet and some of the teachings such as polygamy!